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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 36 post(s)
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.06 22:29:00 - [1] Originally by: Equinox Daedalus Where is this Mythical isk influx going to come from, to keep providence up and running? We'd be better off moving back to empire. How is 1 or 2 explorions going to INCREASE supstantally the isk generation. On average 1 exploration/DED site nets 100mil isk (might be a bit more, im using very low value of TIERs alone + low faction stuff drops). Times 30 days = 3bil/month (again: very low values). And now think if you hit 10/10 once per week (and its possible) you can get 0,33% chance of 2+bil isk. With 4 weeks a month you get 4x 33% chance of phat loot which will cover the system. Result? USE goddamn system. If you USE it and FARM it - you can get ISK which can partially pay for system and rest goes to your wallet. If you dont use system - why do you even bother keeping/upgrading it?
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.06 22:37:00 - [2] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 06/11/2009 22:38:22 Originally by: EvilweaselFinance DED plex money evades alliance taxes. I know it. As an owner of space its your problem to tax it somehow for use (renter system) or just deny others people plexing in station system. Point is - the upgrade gives enough ISK to cover costs, you just have to take it somehow. Quote: You literally cannot count any loot obtained from any plex in the money gained. You want to try to audit people running plexes and force them to pay taxes on the loot they get? Yeah okay have fun with that impossible task. When it comes to plexes the only income you can count on the alliance seeing is ratting tax from bounties. Impossible by your standards? Maybe learn from MM how to farm plexes and deny others from doing it (cosmos radar - which is more random than sure plex in one system).
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.06 22:46:00 - [3] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 06/11/2009 22:47:57 Originally by: el caido Wow. Goonswarm tears aside, I have a serious question: Originally by: devblog The industrial index is based upon two activities taking place within your solar system. These are mining and mini-professions are based around the volume of ore mined and the successful use of hacking or archaeology modules within your space. By "successful use", is this governed by module success or the quantity of goods retrieved? Obviously, being governed by the latter - effectively chance-based - is a horrible idea. Cheers on the changes, CCP. Id guess it means the 1st one. Which is easily farmable then. Just leave t1 frig with analyzer/codebraker in complex and put heavy book on F1 key = codebreaker. Can gets open, after 2-3 minutes it closes itself when stuck F1 kicks in and opens it again. Tho it doesnt matter - radars/magnetos are ** anyways. Those 2 lol-anomalies will give more isk than perma radar-site in your system. As for plex values. Sansha/blood/angel plexes are still quite decent. Serps - i dunno (sorry). Guristas are getting worthless now (yay farmers, but thx for cheap b-type mods). Drone region dudes should cry now. Who cares about "higher chance of drone plex" lol. Quote:** I'm begging you to explain how you even came CLOSE to the number of 100-150 being able to keep themselves busy in a single upgraded system. I'm not trolling, I REALLY REALLY REALLY want you to explain to us how this is even remotely possible. Funny but i agree with this. The upgrades shown will barely occupy 5-10 people (thats excluding normal belts in system).
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.07 00:11:00 - [4] Actually i do enjoy the tears here :D Karma is a ***** (and thats after screwed up capitals "rebalance" Seleene tries to push into dominion).
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.10 03:17:00 - [5] Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: Honest Smedley Originally by: Breaker77 Edited by: Breaker77 on 10/11/2009 02:44:35 Kinda funny that after goons, unaffiliated make up almost as much as everyone else combined. Bad regexp on my part. GoonSwarm is second to unaffiliated. Well then the further reinforces that a lot of people were wanting to venture out into 0.0 when Dominion hit and are ***ed that they might not be able to afford it. Uh huh - and did you count people that actually say the change is good and should be friggin expensive? Or you just took it as granted that everyone* hates this? Because i do love the changes and IMO jammers/bridges should be even more expensvie than they are now (and yeah i know about changes from around page 30).
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.10 11:30:00 - [6] Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Wanna see whining? Cut bounties in missions by 80% and remove all non salvage loot from them as well. Remove jump bridges/jump portals/jump freighters and kill cargo bays/corporate hangars/ship maintenance bays on carriers, moms and titans and we have a deal. In exchange i could even pass with ship bays on freighters.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.10 11:52:00 - [7] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 10/11/2009 11:54:28 Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Wanna see whining? Cut bounties in missions by 80% and remove all non salvage loot from them as well. Remove jump bridges/jump portals/jump freighters and kill cargo bays/corporate hangars/ship maintenance bays on carriers, moms and titans and we have a deal. In exchange i could even pass with ship bays on freighters. And this here is a prime example of what I am talking about. This is prime example of bull** you and other members of 0.0 are spewing around. "life in 0.0 is risky" "life in 0.0 is hard" "logistics in 0.0 are hard". No, they are not. They WERE hard few years ago, before freighters were introduced. Freighters helped a lot but they still needed to be escorted (risk part). Nowadays 0.0 is almost risk free, easy to get rich area of the game with ** easy logistics. Jump carrier to random system, npc/plex/whatever around, jump back to empire. Basically - no chance someone will nab you on the way. When you use POSes as landing point or jump bridges to travel it gets even easier faster. So your "example of what I am talking about" is just another typical rhetorics of most 0.0 allies that has almost no coverage in reality. EDIT: and on topic. CCP dropped down the sov costs then i guess there really is no need anymore to put 100's of players in system or even try it. Instead of fixing the amount of players per system issue so it justifies the cost you wanted lower cost. So vice versa - lower cost = no need to have many players working for the sys = we are back at status quo. Clap, clap, whole point of expansion got just screwed over.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.10 11:57:00 - [8] Originally by: EdFromHumanResources You sound pretty mad about the idea of having your missions nerfed. You should take a break, go have lunch or dinner or whatever timezone you live in. Take a few deep breaths. Another example why you have no clue and are biased towards empire corps is just above. I dont run missions in empire, the rewards are too low. Plexing = isk. But what would you know when you didnt try all isk-making ways
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.10 13:21:00 - [9] Originally by: Adam Ridgway Difference is: in 0.0 you can go and ** their JB, poses, outposts, or whatever... oh wait: you won't. But then is you the one who is lazzy? No you are not, I won't be as biased as you. You can suicide gank in empire too ya know? And yeah i did get my share of kills on JB poses. Suicide ganking is actually tad harder, especially if you want to continue it for prolonged time (uh oh sec status, tho it can be evaded to some degree). Quote: People recognizes there are problems: too much passive income by moon mining, too easy to conquer and hold space, too easy to plant JB's and cynojammers over the place, all this reduces risk & effort at no additional costs and helps status quo because no oen can challenge stablished powers cause they are too rich etc. This all is getting fixed by adding costs (and I think cost of JB's and cynojammers per system should be higher) and making sov a bit more easy to contest (should be even easier if you ask me). Isnt this what i said somewhere earlier in the thread? Sov costs/hub costs can go down, no problem here (and they actually did). But up the jammer/bridge costs 2x so fully developed (defended) system costs around 2b. Quote: But reward is awfull for the individual. Here is a problem with plexing: is limited, if good plexes are increased reward will be reduced cause income is dependent on supply:demand of faction items. So it CAN'T compete with lvl4's, you need a fixed way of making money and which is worth it, or people will be doing business in empire and just use 0.0 as a pew pew meanigless playground. And yet even now with 'undeveloped' systems 0.0 people sit in 0.0 most of the time grinding belts/anomalies/whatever. And anomalies are fixed income. People dont bother because "someone said that anomalies are **". They arent. Granted, there are quite a few crap anomalies (for example ressuply point or w/ever its named from guristas - housing mostly BCs) but its same as with spawns or mission lottery. You can get few crap missions in a row (lol buzz kill) and few goods (blockades). I didnt run anomalies every time i found them only because i didnt really have time. And if you have 3x 8/10 + 5x 6/10 to run and 5 anomalies to compete you will always take DED plex. But when i didnt find much i actually did run anomalies and they can also give decent ISK afk way (get good tank on drake, put FOFs, jam F1 key, go afk, come back, collect loot). Also they tend to spawn commanders quite often. IMO the best way to improve system would be giving even more anomalies. Usually one anomaly can keep one person occupied for 30-60 minutes. If its permanent anomaly - you can assume it keeps one person busy. So 10 perma anomalies = 10 people served. Now i know it cant keep 100 people at once but i think everyone is missiong one point. Its 100 people during the day not 100 people at once. In reality those 10 anomalies will easily serve 50 people. Add plexes and other crap (crap as in = i dont care about it, maybe s1 else likes doing magneto/radar sites or mining) and you up it a bit again.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.10 15:10:00 - [10] Originally by: Sky Marshal Edited by: Sky Marshal on 10/11/2009 14:59:26 Originally by: Kepakh Max upgraded system with 10 anomalies and yield of 25M per hour is 172B ISK worth. Let's assume you will utilize 1/4 at 10% tax, that is 4.3B income in taxes. Did I miss something? Do you still want better rewards for anomalies? Do you still want to have more anomalies at 1M upkeep lately proposed by Chronotis? Now imagine you run bots there... You missed this : A L4 Mission give an income of 52M per hour. And your maths supposes that the anomalies will be used at all time... No. His maths suppose that anomalies will be used 25% of the time. Even if you drop to 12,5% it will still be enough to pay for the system by system tax alone. 12,5% is just 3 hours per day of farming all anomalies in system (3 hours x 10 anomalies).

Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.10 15:21:00 - [11] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab * No sov means no automatic notification that there's someone putting up a tower in the wastelands between alliances. You need to check every single system to figure out if it's just a few lone ninja-ratters or someone putting up house. Sov prices got dropped to mere 30mil/month (or was it 60 and 30 for hub?). So its WAY easier to sov-up whole 0.0.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.10 15:34:00 - [12] Originally by: Sky Marshal Originally by: Deva Blackfire No. His maths suppose that anomalies will be used 25% of the time. Even if you drop to 12,5% it will still be enough to pay for the system by system tax alone. 12,5% is just 3 hours per day of farming all anomalies in system (3 hours x 10 anomalies). All the time of the 25% a day, my bad ^^ It is still 6 hours for 10 people per system, with an upgrade who can disable himself if the activity is not constant. As a mission give 2X guaranted income than an anomaly with no risks and as it don't have any obligation of attendance, the choice is easy, same if we can reduce to 3 hours of work per system... Even if it took 5 minutes to pay itself you would be whining TBFH. Some people have just built-in whine generators. Fact is: its quite cheap. Another fact is: its better than it ever was. Also: it is about paying for full defended system with bridges and jammers. If you want to pay for sov+hub system (90mil/month) then: 10 anomalies give 250mil/hour. To pay 90mil ou need to farm them 90/250 = 21 minutes during whole month. If you divide it by 30 days you need to farm said anomalies LESS THAN A MINUTE per day. Happy? And if you really want jammer/bridge then its your problem. They are not industry/isk making elements and are not necessary.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.10 19:16:00 - [13] Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto One hour of missioning per player per day at 10% tax will give Goons half a trillion a month. So why don't they fund their alliance that way right now? Because it doesn't work! And you know why it doesnt work? Because due to all r64 **** people got lazy. I dont need to do anything, the afk-ISK-from-thin-air will fund me everything: from SOV, to POS to stations to ships. Atm all 0.0 alliances get reality check: suddenly they HAVE to participate in making isk. You know what would be perfect? Moon mining being changed to manual mode. Also its funny how everything is compare dto lv4 missions yet almost noone from people whining here runs them. Most of whiners still go on auto9matic moon goo. Again: change it to manual and give 2x lv4 income per hour. Happy? Of course no, because suddenly your income will be able to be both disrupted and will be much lesser. And will not be AFK.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.10 19:41:00 - [14] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 10/11/2009 19:43:38 Originally by: NickSuccorso R64 income goes into helping pay for alliance upkeep, not personal wallets. If there's an alliance out there that you can show me that supplies there people's PVP ships, please show me who it is. From alies i know? TRI (prolly back again due to dyspro), PL, most (if not all) of NC, im quite sure -A- and you do it too. It is called "ship reimbursement program" which de facto is moving alliance isk (in form of assets) to players wallets (hands). Another thing - i had my personal r64 for a while, so again it went into my wallet. I know few people who also have personal r64s (even under alliance cover) tho its obvious i cant say names (alliances will get mad and as those are some of my friends i dont want them to lose easy income). Plus - they go to help keep ally upkeeps because you did rule so as an alliance. Clap clap - you actually managed to TAX moon income (with 100% tax rate). Which still doesnt change a thing. If it was manual nothing would stop you from putting 100% tax on moons or doing lol "mandatory" moon mining ops. Or to make it easier? Just mining unprocessed moon mins which could be taxed in stations while being processed. Options aplenty, but you are too short sighted to even think about them. All you can do is repeat same old mantra "all r64 goes to alliance". Quote: That all assumes that the anomalies will actually be worth running. I said earlier in this thread that I would estimate about 5% of all anomalies are currently worth running over belt ratting. If I come into a system and see that all the anomalies are terrible I might as well start ratting because I'll make more ISK. From what ive seen while scanning geminate (that being 1000+ anomaly sites) around 15% of them are total crap (frigs and cruisers), another 15% are mix of BC/BS and rest have plenty of battleships inside. On lv4 level. With additional cherry of top named faction spawns. Quote: Lol. Pretty much everyone in 0.0 has a empire alt to make isk, or at the very least rats/mines etc. Another generalisation which has absolutely no cover in facts. And in quite a lot cases it is wrong (at least from allies ive been in that being tri, celes, razor and having additional insider on few southern ones). Otherwise you wouldnt see people doing belting or plexing like crazy.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.10 20:21:00 - [15] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 10/11/2009 20:25:29 Originally by: gambrinous Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm in one of those alliances, my ships aren't reimbursed Ships are only reimbursed on approved ops (generally just an official FC) but even then, not all ships. Caps? NO, HACS? NO Recons? NO So best case scenario is full reimbursement if I only ever PVP when there's an official fleet formed, and only if I fly a sub cap that is on a list. Yay. You know whats the funniest part about this thread? People contradict themselves all the time. But when they contradict themselves in one post - this is just comedy gold. EDIT: And a bit back at 1st post on this page Quote: If he can't even get cyno jammers and stuff untill WAAYYY late in his systems development, how the heck is he ever going to last that long? You see, the issue is you (as in you = players) just killed your own immunity by... reducing SOV costs. When clear system costed 300m/month just to keep sov it meant noone would really try and take it from you coz keeping it to yourself would cost them a bit. Now with reduced sov costs it is again feasible just to sov up all systems within 100 jumps so noone else sits there. Whats funnier keeping sov will be even EASIER now than before. 30m/month is less than small tower costs.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.10 20:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Pointfive Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: gambrinous Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm in one of those alliances, my ships aren't reimbursed Ships are only reimbursed on approved ops (generally just an official FC) but even then, not all ships. Caps? NO, HACS? NO Recons? NO So best case scenario is full reimbursement if I only ever PVP when there's an official fleet formed, and only if I fly a sub cap that is on a list. Yay. You know whats the funniest part about this thread? People contradict themselves all the time. But when they contradict themselves in one post - this is just comedy gold. Are you daft? Some ships are reimbursed most are not. Maybe he was flying one that isnt. You decide to go do some pvp on your own? No reimbursement. You decide to form a big gang? No reimbursement. Get ganked doing any form of pve? No reimbursement. If you fly a specific ship for a very specific flight. You get some of your loss reduced. You still lose isk. Woah man these freakin moons make 0.0 and isk fountain for the average man. Are you stupid? If SOME ships are reimbursed then he IS reimbursed. So his first line is a blatant lie. I wrote about reimbursement at all not full or whatever. Which he confirmed - in some cases he gets ship back = reimbursement program exists.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.10 20:43:00 - [17] Originally by: Shawna Gray No you said "I dont need to do anything, the afk-ISK-from-thin-air will fund me everything: from SOV, to POS to stations to ships." And thats far far from some isk for a few specific shiptypes on a few specific ops. Yes i wrote that. And yes it does fund SOV, POSes. And it also does fund ships in reimbursement mode. If it doesnt reimburse ones you fly or alliance reimburses crap that is not needed i guess thats the problem of said alliance? Back in Tri we had caps and dictors reimbursement program. Considering we had MUCH less moons than any other alliance in the list and we could replace all losses i dare to ask - who pockets the surplus of isk? Especially when their ship losses werent that heavy over past months? And if the isk goes into supercap production - it is still going towards ships, amrite?
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.10 21:25:00 - [18] Originally by: Verlisia That's not true though about the trit... you only need 13 or so million trit to build a abaddon for instance with a ME of 0. there's more than 13 Mill worth of trit in one belt in empire belts. ( we mine usually about 2 belts at a time and at the end of it all we typically end up with about 25-30+ mill of trit depending on if we concentrante solely on veld or not. so that's a battle ship per belt and they respawn fairly often enough that you could draw in enough materials in a week with a group of dedicated industry guys who know what their doing to provide loads of ships including bs's. Ill do fast explanation to you. Lets say it takes you one hour to mine 10mil trit with 2 people (no idea how fast it is in reality). this means 2 people made 30mil isk = 15mil/hour/person. If those 2 people did NPCing/lv4's/whatever giving 30mil/hour you would end up with 60mil isk. For 30mil isk you buy the trit you would have mined anyways and rest 30mil isk is spares you can use for whatever (or to buy another 10mil trit). As a result your 2 "miners" end up with 10mil trit in hands and 2 "npcers" end up with 20 mil in same time. Understood? And in reality thats the mining issue in 0.0. Its easier to NPC/plex and buy needed trit from empire afk-miners/macros instead of mining it yourself. Increase trit amount per m3 by factor of 5 (or more, need to do maths here) and it suddenly starts being comeptetive.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.10 23:44:00 - [19] Originally by: Banlish [red] Continued wall-o-text So the big boys (the 1000+ member alliances are going to have to make the same income off 1/4th the space (if not less) but systems can only support about 50% of what CCP said YET is still thinking that 50 people+ will fit in a system. So how will these new alliances fit in? This is me making rational request for the SMALL alliances Cute. Now SUDDENLY you care about small alliances? Lmao. You dont give **** about them, as you never did before. If you really want to know what small alliance wants then ask them, not goons, atlas, nc or whoever else posts here.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:47:00 - [20] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 11/11/2009 14:47:16 Originally by: Arkady Sadik For those who missed it, current SiSi prices (which can change still, of course): TCU: 1m ISK / day Hub: 5m ISK / day Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day CSAA: 1m ISK / day IMO: TCU should cost 5, HUB 1m/day. Stops spamming TCUs everywhere just to "cover area". CSAA - doesnt matter too much for me but spamming 10 CSAAs in cap construction system = 300m/month = cheap. And gives almost same invulnerability as sov4 (i dont see raid behind enemy lines and taking out 10 POSes being normal way of dealing with them anyways). Jammers and bridges should be even more expensive for all i care. Or maybe increased price if both are in system? Still it looks better than it did till now on TQ.

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